In respect for full disclosure let me start out by saying I’m a Shaklee distributor so if you want to taint anything I have to say as bias go ahead. Speaking of biases, your “review” of Nutriferon clearly showed your bias towards MLM and to Shaklee.

Anyway, for what it’s worth Shaklee philosphy is to do business by the Golden Rule which has lead to many corporate decisions that 99.9% of other companies (mlm or otherwise) wouldn’t make. Decisions like not to make fad products regardless of the profit to be made because the SCIENTIFIC PROOF wasn’t there. Or to to testing on raw ingredients above and beyond industry regulations. So no, Shaklee hasn’t encouraged distributors to tout Neutriferon as a remedy to bird flu or prey on that current fear. That doesn’t take away from Nutriferon’s breakthrough as an immune product.

The key point that you forgot to mention in your review is that Nutirferon was developed by Dr. Yasuhiko Kojima, MD who discovered interferon in 1954 and its critical role in building the body’s immune response. And then (and here’s the big point about Nutriferon) Dr. Kojima spent the next 40 years of his life finding a way to naturally boost interferon production testing hundreds of combinations of plants. The result being his patented botanical blend found in Nutriferon. So the label you refer to is patented blend that comes from 40 years of research by the discoverer of Interferon!

Dr. Kojima attended our recent Shaklee convention where he shared his story about his lifelong work to develop this product that you callousness snicker at.

Shaklee’s nutrition products have had studies published on their products in over 100 peer-reviewed medical and scientific journals. That’s unprecedented in the wellness industry. Dr. Kojima by the way was so impressed with Shaklee scientific approach to nutrition that he joined the Shaklee Scientific Advisory Board.

As a corporate citizen Shaklee has an exemplary record. Roger Barnett, Shaklee’s Chairman and CEO highlights that record this way…

“Fifty years ago, Dr. Shaklee helped pioneer a business model that was revolutionary in using economic incentives to achieve positive social goals - better health, building dignity and self esteem, and providing both an economic opportunity and financial freedom for millions of people around the world.

“The unique part of Dr. Shaklee’s vision was to combine doing good and doing well.

“Instead of having to choose between the private and public sector, Dr. Shaklee created a business model that allowed people to earn private sector rewards while accomplishing public sector goals. This underlying desire to help achieve positive social change has been a key driver in the development of all of our products and in guiding our corporate actions. In turn, these values have allowed us to attract a remarkable group of independent distributors who deeply care about helping other people and our environment.

“Today, Shaklee is made up of a community of people that share a common passion—caring for the health of their families, the health of their communities and the health of the planet. Our association with Professor Wangari Maathai* is one of shared kinship –we both are trying to create viable economic models that empower individuals to take control of their lives, to care for others and to advocate for a healthier, greener world.

“For 50 years, Shaklee has promoted the principle of “Living in Harmony with Nature.” Our founder, Dr. Forrest Shaklee, believed in both the healing powers of natural products and in our responsibility to be stewards for our environment.

“To combat water pollution, the company created one of the first biodegradable cleaners.

“To combat deforestation, the company worked with the American Himalayan Foundation, an organization chaired by Sir Edmund Hillary, and contributed to having over 1 million trees planted in Asia.

“To combat global warming, we helped create Climate Neutral certification and became the first company in the world to be certified. We analyzed our company’s greenhouse gas emissions and offset our total Co2 emissions with investments in fossil fuel emissions reduction projects such as building solar panels and windmills in order to have a net zero impact on the environment.

“In 2002, we were awarded the Climate Protection Award by the US Environmental Protection Agency as well as the Environmental Stewardship Award from Social Accountability International.

“We have a long history of helping others less fortunate that us. Just one example is in just two weeks, our distributors contributed over $475,000 of products to help Tsunami relief efforts in Southeast Asia.

“Economic incentives can be an important driver for social change, but they are only half the story. Our Shaklee family are driven by being a positive force for social good. And in my personal view, the key to improving the world is to create of model of sustainable aid – of providing a self funding series of economic incentives to drive people to help others live better lives - and that is what we at Shaklee Corporation are all about.”

*Editorial note: Professor Wangari Maathai from Kenya won the Nobel Peace Prize for the Environment, 2004., and was a keynote speaker at the Shaklee 2005 National Convention, Chicago, IL, in August. Her and Mr. Barnett are working closely together to create opportunities in Africa.

In a world of Enron’s and Worldcoms and corporate greed, explotation and malfeasance, a company like Shaklee, with a philosophy to do good in the world, to create exceptional wellness products and a company that has opened the door to entreprenuership for thousands upon thousands of people paying over $3 billion in commissions along the way, doesn’t deserve the condescending attitude and misinformation that you threw its way (the link to the MLM truth site is a joke).

If only you would have dug a little deeper beyond your own biases and misconceptions, you would have discovered what an exceptional company Shaklee is. I and thousands of others are proud to associate our good names and reputations with Shaklee.

Sincerely,

Carl LaFlamme

Comment by Carl — 10/21/2005 @ 5:47 pm

Thank you for your response, Mr. LaFlamme.

The link I gave to the Shaklee NutriFeron page provides plenty of information on Dr. Kojima’s history with interferon. I have no doubt that he, like you, is sincere in his belief that NutriFeron is all Shaklee claims it is.

Unfortunately, Dr. Kojima’s involvement with this product will not erase the fact that Shaklee’s business model is a pyramid scheme — and neither will Shaklee’s humanitarian work.

It’s irresponsible for Shaklee to market NutriFeron as “proven” to boost the body’s ability to produce interferon based on four statistically insignificant clinical studies, only one of which had anything to do with a virus.

But what bothers me the most is how Shaklee distributors like Jane (and I doubt she is the only one) will continue to insinuate that NutriFeron will help protect their families against the bird flu.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 10/21/2005 @ 7:47 pm

Pyramid schemes are illegal. Shaklee has been legally in business for fifty years. It’s business model is both direct sales and network marketing both legal businesses. And its business model is superior to other business models because it doesn’t create barriers to entry –allowing anyone of any age, sex, race or economic standing the ability to own their own business. Nor does it put glass ceilings on what an individual can earn. It is an enlighted business model and I’m sorry you don’t understand it and I’m sorry in general that people put down things they don’t understand.

I will say like in any industry there are bad apples and some companies claiming to be network marketing companies were in fact pryamid schemes. You should learn the difference.

I hope you’ll fight the good fight and support companies like Shaklee that create products that build health and speak out against the many companies that create products that destroy health.

The good guys need all the help they can get.

Have a good life.

Comment by Carl — 10/21/2005 @ 10:20 pm

I agree with you Carl.

I read this opinion and was shocked. But, in the internet world you run across people of this opinion often.

I too would like to see the author join us, but it looks like her mind is set.

I have seen what the Shaklee products can do and would never switch to another company. I watched my mother in law for 3 years before I decided to actively start selling. She was kind enough to put her testimony on my site.

The difference between a pyramid scheme and network marketing is not the shape. They both look like a pyramid due to the fact that if you plan to go anywhere financially, you must have people under you. The difference is the fact that legitimate product is moved. In a pyramid scheme you pay $$ and get $$ and no product is moved, that is the illegal part.

I do agree that there needs to be more studies on a broader range of situations. But, they are on their way. I look forward to seeing the new studies!

I do know that my upline has been taking it since it came out and she has not had an asthma attack. During this time of year she is normally attatched to her inhaler.

And Bonnie we also have a time release Vitamin C if you are interested

Comment by Ang — 10/22/2005 @ 8:36 pm

Come on you guys. You sell the stuff and so of course you’ll be biased. That’s clear to me. Bonnie has no skin in the game - she’s not selling, buying, or otherwise involved. Her analysis is well thought out and presented. Besides she really good looking!

Comment by Big Daddy — 10/22/2005 @ 9:23 pm

I didn’t say it wasn’t “well thought out and presented”

I did infact agree that Nutriferon needed more research. But, for myself, from what I have seen and read, Nutriferon has already proven itself. And I didn’t even go to convention! LOL

Oh, and our iron has Vitamin C also… Just in case she decides to have some “skin in the game” at some point.

I do want to say, Bonnie, that I appreciate you taking the time to do your research. Just don’t count us out yet. We may suprise you.

Comment by Ang — 10/23/2005 @ 10:34 am

Yikes! I’m surrounded by Shaklee operatives!

Seriously, guys, in my defense I’ll say I never attacked you distributors. I only attacked the company. (Well, maybe I attacked the distributor who spammed me. But I did remove her name to save her from embarrassment from her Shaklee friends.)

I know the majority of you Shaklee people are honest and sincere, which ticks me off even more, considering your company’s business model. I think you’re being scammed!

And before anybody tells me again how Shaklee is not a pyramid scheme, please answer me this:

Does Shaklee still tell recruits to “find three who find three?”

I may have some serious math issues but I sense an improbability here — especially for the majority of downliners.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 10/23/2005 @ 1:06 pm

Not everyone who joins is going to want to make a biz out of it. The find 3 who find 3 idea is great for those wanting to quickly grow a biz. But it has its downsides too. If one of those 3 was not really wanting to grow a biz then you will not see the yeild you want.

My Shaklee biz is about the products. I would love to have several biz leaders under me, but if they just want to buy, that is fine too. I will not push them into selling.

How are we being scammed? We have access to our uplines financial statements and are able to meet with our uplines upline if we so choose. I see my upline up to 3 levels up on a regular basis.

You are still confusing pyramids with MLM. Yes, pyramids are illegal. MLMs are not. The difference is product movement.

And as with any biz, brick and mortar or not, you will get what you put into it. If you work it hard you will make more than if you just sat there and waited for people to come to you.

To some it means nothing, but to me Shaklee’s 50 year history says alot. I have a hard time believing that a 50 year company (of any type) is a scam. Wouldn’t someone have taken them to court and won or something by now?

I am sure that there are some scams out there. Sadly those are the ones that give us good companies a bad name. But there are tons of MLMs out there that are legit.

Yes, it is true that you have to be using or personally sell a certain amount of products to qualify for your bonuses. But, if you already use even just a few products, or have someone that you sell to directly from your stock (if you have any) that takes care of itself.

I don’t want to start a fight here. I am honestly trying to answer your questions to the best of my ability. Have you been to the site and seen the info on the income opportunity? Have you watched all the videos available on the site? Have you searched Shaklee with the BBB? Do you personally know someone who sells or uses?

You are welcome to contact me directly if you wish. Selling is not for everyone. And for those who wish to just use, in my case anyway, I am perfectly fine with that.

Comment by Ang — 10/23/2005 @ 1:30 pm

Bonnie, your perception of MLM and companies like Shaklee is terribley short sided. Most people get involved in Shaklee because of the products. The FTC defintion of a pyramid is the antithesis of ow Shaklee Corp has operated for 49 years. As far a multi-level marketing goes, I do it everyday, I often tell people about a resturant I ate at or a movie I went to see. You obviously have had bad experiences with MLM and that is ok, it is not for everyone. WE don’t take shots at you because you’re a [edited to remove non-family-friendly term] and [edited to remove non-family-friendly phrase], or do we?
If a person states she feels good about taking something that may boost their immune system, what is wrong with that? When you come out and really say something stupid, expect the firestorm.

Comment by DJ — 10/26/2005 @ 11:42 am

I just made up a rule.

From now on, if anyone leaves a non-family-friendly comment, I’ll edit/delete the comment and blacklist the IP.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 10/28/2005 @ 10:00 am

It is people like DJ that give the rest of us MLMers (of any company) a bad name. I like your new rule Bonnie, he had no right to post that on a public board.

I got this from my upline today. I thought I’d post it here and maybe it would help. Since it is from a pharmacist… And no, I do not know the person LOL.

Phyto-Bytes©
By Rusty Ost, RPh and Member of Association of Natural Medicine Pharmacists
NutriFeron™

This very exciting product comes from Shaklee’s diagnostic preventive health care arena. It is an exclusive blend of four key herbal ingredients…extract of pumpkin seeds, plantago seeds, safflower seeds and Japanese honeysuckle flower buds.

Let’s take a look at the immune system. The immune system protects the body against infections by bacteria, viruses and other parasites. It is really a collection of responses that the body makes to infection. So it is sometimes called the ‘immune response’. When Dr. Yasuhiko Kojima was looking for answers for how the immune system worked he discovered a protein in the body called interferon. This protein is produced by animal cells when viruses invade them; it is released into the bloodstream or intercellular fluid to induce healthy cells to manufacture an enzyme that counters the infection. Our bodies make three distinct types of interferon. These three types are called alpha, beta, and gamma interferon. A different type of white cell in our bodies produces each type of interferon present in our bodies. For example, alpha interferon has been found effective against chronic hepatitis B, a major cause of liver cancer and cirrhosis, as well as for treatment of genital warts and some more rare cancers of blood and bone marrow. Beta interferon is used to treat multiple sclerosis. Gamma interferon is generally used for blood disorders. These forms of interferon are only available separately and only with a prescription. NutriFeron™ increases the body’s natural production of all three types naturally.

[Edited for length... read the rest here.]

BTW I love your blog. You have a wonderful writing style.

Comment by Ang — 10/30/2005 @ 11:34 am

I stumbled across this site in my travels and i have a few ?’s for you:

1. Why are you so stuck on bird flu? The original conversation may have been about bird flu, but you keep bringing it up. Has any other Shaklee distributor brought up the issue of bird flu? All I have heard them say is it boosts immune response.

2. Why do you insist that Shaklee is a pyramid scheeme? It seems perfectly obvious to me that it is a perfectly legitimate Multi-Level marketing model (Which donald Trump said he would use if he had to make his fortune all over again.) Is Avon a pyramid scheeme? How about Mary Kay?

I may be way off base here , but if your natural immune system is boosted aren’t you less likely to get any virus or disease?(even bird flu)

Comment by Alan — 10/30/2005 @ 12:27 pm

Ang, Thanks for the kind words. I was going to let DJ’s comment stand, but Hubby reminded me that my kids read this website occasionally.

I must excerpt the article because 1) it is copyrighted material and 2) it is too long. If you have the link to the actual article, post it and I’ll add it to the comment.

Everybody: post links rather than the entire article!

Also, I can’t publish e-mail addresses because they get harvested by spam bots. We don’t want Mr. Ost to get innundated with Viagra ads!

Alan, read the first three paragraphs of this post. I didn’t make the Bird Flu/NutriFeron connection until a Shaklee distributor spammed me about using NutriFeron in the event of a Tamiflu shortage.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 10/30/2005 @ 9:50 pm

At this time that article does not seem to be posted online. I did find several other articles of his though… I beleive it is a subscriber email that my upline got the article from. When I find a link for it I’ll let you know.

Or, I could post it on my .WS site and give you the link there… Would that work?

Comment by Ang — 10/31/2005 @ 11:14 am

E-mail me the link to the article on your website and I’ll add it to your original comment.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 11/1/2005 @ 9:30 am

from what I can see [mysterius Shaklee Distributor] didn’t mention bird flu. She simply said, “I for one am taking preventive measures to protect my family by strengthening our own immune system.” she may have “spammed” on a post pretaining to bird flu, but she just stated that it would be a “preventative measure” as for the rest that is a creation of your own mind.

If, for instance you sand bag a levee, that is a preventative measure, but it does not guarantee that flood waters will not still pass this new barrier.

As for spam, last time I checked, posting ones personal opinion in a public post setting did not constitute spam.

Comment by Alan — 11/2/2005 @ 4:53 pm

Ah, yes, Alan, but this is not a public post setting, this is my website. People who leave comments here are my guests.

Some of my guests leave comments about Viagra, poker games, software, pornography, and vitamin supplements, among other things. Then they tell my readers how to purchase such items.

You may treat such comments with the respect reserved for personal opinions, but I choose to refer to them as spam.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 11/2/2005 @ 5:46 pm

Who cares? Take it or don’t. I take it along with proper dietary and rest habits. At some point or another in the annals of medical research everything will get shot down. Vitamin E….not good for you anymore. Drink juice….too many overweight children, have them east fresh fruit…..too many chemicals on our “healthy” food products. A rise in people (mostly children)with alergies and asthma. Calcium causes kidney stones. On and on. People are entitled to their opinions, but where you got yours on the Pyramid suggests you either got caught in some scam, or listened to someone who is ill educated.

Comment by Diana — 11/3/2005 @ 12:37 pm

Vitamin E isn’t bad for you BTW, it has to be all natural and uncontaminated. Also taken in moderation… Juice is only “bad” cause of the added sugar. But I do agree with your basic thoughts. The fact that supplements are now on the food pyramid for older adults shows that the med community sees that there is some merit to taking them. But what they neglet to say is not all are created equal. You pay $2 for a bottle of multi’s you get at the most $2 worth of good. They could, in fact, be harming you. Sadly all alot of people see are the $$ signs and don’t take into consideration the research, history, guarantee…. ect

Comment by Ang — 11/4/2005 @ 11:02 am

I only made it through about 8 posts, so if something has already been cleared up, excuse me.

A pyramid scheme in addition to creating no value and exchange of no product has no end. In the Shaklee model, I believe it has 4 levels.

Having been a partner in one of the world’s largest consulting firms, the pyramid, ratio of staff to partners is key. It’s also called leverage of human capital and is true in any successful business model. That is one guy or gal gets a business going, systematizes it and then replicates through employees, partners, alliances, franchises, etc.

No different for Shaklee. Shaklee living the golden rule has paid out over $3B in commissions over the past 50 years. The have been other MLMs come and go, several of them leaving a bad taste in many people’s mouths and therefore over the whole industry.

Shaklee has painstakingly seemingly more than any other firm, whether traditional business model or MLM, lived the golden rule. Yes, sure it’s about making money, but not to the detriment of the consumer.

As mentioned before, Shaklee could (but hasn’t) and well others have, brought products to market that are not well thought out and tested with no value and potentially harmful. That especially goes for many items you find in your conventional grocery store. Shaklee has never had to recall a product.

Comment by Chris — 11/4/2005 @ 12:09 pm

Sorry for my late arrival to this interesting thread, but perhaps I can add value. It seems there may be some confusion between

• the normal English usage of the word “significance” and what statisticians mean by the term, as well as
• the difference between small sample size and statistical significance.

In normal English, “significant” means “important” but in statistics it means “unlikely to occur by chance.” Academic journals like The Journal of Gastroenterology require a .05 significance level for publication; in other words, the findings are unlikely to be due to chance in 95 cases out of 100.

A small sample is not automatically considered “statistically insignificant” and in fact, there is an entire field of statistics devoted to small sample design and analysis. Are you still with me? If so, let’s revisit the article in the Journal of Gastroenterology:

Kaji K,Yoshida S, Nagata N,Yamashita T, Mizukoshi E, Honda M, Kojima Y, Kaneko S. An open-label study of administration of EH0202, a health-food additive, to patients with chronic hepatitis C. J Gastroenterol. 2004 Sep;39(9):873-8.

The authors of the Journal of Gastroenterology article clearly state that they are testing

“the effect of EH0202, a mixture of four herbal extracts that are known to induce interferons, on hepatitis C virus (HCV)-RNA levels in patients with chronic hepatitis C.”

Hence, they are testing the effect of the four herbs on hepatitis C virus. They are not testing whether or not the extracts are known to induce interferons. That is a given.

Again, with the small sample size (N = 35) and the fact that the authors report “There was a statistically significant decrease in HCV-RNA levels in patients with high viral titers after 3 months of EH0202 administration” from testing, the effect of the herbal extracts on viral levels is unlikely to be due to chance.

We all appear to agree with the author’s closing summary,

“CONCLUSIONS: These findings suggest that EH0202 may be safe and useful in the treatment of patients with chronic hepatitis C. Further studies are, however, needed to obtain a definitive conclusion.”

Thank you for the forum. Let’s hope such independent, peer-reviewed studies continue, preferably with a larger sample and double-blind design.

Lynn P., longtime statistical wonk, newcomer to Shaklee

Comment by Lynn Peterson — 11/15/2005 @ 8:08 pm

Thanks, Jane, for the thoughtful post. I’d like everybody to know that this is NOT the Jane who originally spammed me.

I tried to download the entire text of the original study, but it costs $30 so I opted not to. What I wanted to learn from the full text: of the original 65 patients, exactly how many of those had “high viral titers”? And of those patients with high viral titers, how many experienced the “statistically significant decrease in HCV-RNA levels”?

We can’t know how effective the herbs were unless we know how many patients saw the decrease. If only 2 patients experienced the decrease out of the original 65, would that be considered “statistically significant”?

I appreciate a statistical wonk’s input, even if she is a Shaklee operative!

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 11/17/2005 @ 3:02 pm

Um, her name was Lynn LOL

$30 seems like a good investment to me. I may have to get that study at some point. Maybe I could forward you a copy Bonnie… Unless someone already has it.

Comment by Ang — 11/17/2005 @ 3:13 pm

Oh, gosh, I can’t believe I did that, Ang. I had Jane on the brain!

Forgive me, Lynn. I’m in a pediatrician’s waiting room with internet access right now—and thought I could catch up. From now on… all blogging commentary will be done at home!

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 11/17/2005 @ 3:48 pm

Bonnie, you are terribly biased. Pyramid schemes ARE illegal, and Shaklee is NOT one. Shaklee uses multi-level marketing as their way of advertising, so they can spend more money on research, not expensive adds in stores and on T.V.

Comment by Justin Carlson — 11/19/2005 @ 11:03 am

Shaklee does need to study Nutriferon further. More scientific research is always a good thing.

And nobody should be pushing it as an ironclad cure or protection for anything.

But I am convinced it does something, and I’m normally very skeptical of herb claims and “herb people” (no offense).

Why the belief in this one? I’ve had a life long battle with sinus infections. 3 years ago I moved to a more humid area and that battle turned into a losing one. Infections every 3-6 weeks, many severe, all requiring antibiotics. I was told repeatedly to see a specialist and schedule sinus surgery, or move again. But that would have been the first surgery in my life, a hard thing to do. And moving was not an option. Last March, in a last ditch effort, I went on Immunity Boost (the old name for Nutriferon).

In 8 months, not one single sinus infection. Not one cold. One minor flu incident. Reduced (though not eliminated) allergies. This is a major improvement, for me, in three areas. (I don’t usually get the flu any way, it’s the other areas where I struggle.)

Twice in that time period I’ve had extended close contact with family with bad colds. Each time I thought “Yep, when I get home it will start, probably lead to the next sinus infection.” Never happened, which is shocking to me.

Placebo effect??? I find that hard to believe (no pun intended). And nothing else has really changed in my life that would account for this. I’m very interested to see what happens through the rest of the fall/winter season. If I can make it to next March without a sinus infection, I might start selling the stuff myself.

I can see why someone would be skeptical. Shaklee needs more, larger studies. But I bet those studies will bear out some positive effects.

(BTW, I’m not a distributor. I’ve been a member for their vitamin packs, avoid most of their herbs, but have never signed anyone else up. Just giving full disclosure.)

Comment by Daniel Taylor — 11/20/2005 @ 5:29 am

Thank you, Mr. Taylor. I appreciate your thoughtful post and the reasonable way in which you related your experience.

Perhaps more studies will be done that prove NutriFeron to be all Shaklee claims it is. If that day comes, I will be first in line to write about it.

In the meantime, I am very glad NutriFeron worked for you. Chronic sinus infections are painful and debilitating.

Stay healthy!

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 11/20/2005 @ 11:04 am

Wow! Several things to address here. I’m fascinated by the thoughts and theories and that go into the process. I have recently started taking Nutriferon to help with an AutoImmune Thyroid Disorder. I’ve been miserable for 3 years, with thyroid levels considered “normal”. After 1 week, I visited with a new Dr., and my Thyroid levels are lower than they’ve been since before diagnosis. I’m anxious at this point to take an Antibodies Blood test. The new Dr. gave me his blessing, said Shaklee has some excellent products, keep taking it, and we’ll test at my next checkup. I guess the bottom line is, it can’t hurt. And traditional medicine does not offer all cures. For me, it has been a blessing so far. Normally after 3 or 4 days of a “new help” I crash, and feel more miserable than before. Not this time.

As to MLM, the Direct Selling Association has strict guidelines and definitions on their website. As a business owner new to the Multi-Level and Direct Selling arena, I firmly believe in giving the everyday person the chance to profit, instead of yet another brick and mortar store out for themselves. Normally at horribly high markups from wholesale.

Just my 2 cents! Glad to meet you all!

Jackie Payne
Not a Shaklee Distributor!

Comment by Jackie Payne — 11/20/2005 @ 1:24 pm

Hello,

I was just reading the thread concerning Shaklee’s Nutriferon product and just wanted to add my 2 cents worth if that’s ok? I AM a Shaklee Distributor by the way, in Canada, so, call me biased if you will, but, I originally joined only as a member as I was formally trained as an RN back in the early 70s and so was very skeptical, to say the least. I’d been sickly for most of my life (I’m 51 now) and mainstream medicine had never been able to help me and in fact, had only served to make me sicker with each passing year, hence my foray into the alternative health field. I joined Shaklee as a member back in 1997 and the rest is history. Their products SO changed my health for the better that it wasn’t long before I became a believer and folks began wanting to know what I was doing that was making me radiate with better health and so I began to sell the products too. No one HAS to sell and I’ve never, EVER been pressured to sell or even to sell more once I began selling, else I’d of been out of there a long time ago as I absolutely HATE pressure sales!!!!!
I’ve been faithfully taking the afore-mentioned Nutriferon product ever since it first came out under its former name (Immune Building Complex) and have not had a single cold, flu nor sinus infection ever since. That’s remarkable for someone like me who ALWAYS used to get sick if someone even sneezed one block over!
Another thing that sold me on Shaklee was their integrity. A few years back, the company discovered a batch of their raw organic ginseng had become contaminated from wind blown pesticides from non-organic farms in the vicinity. They made the corporate decision, WITHOUT being told to do so by anyone else, to recall ALL their ginseng product already out there “just in case”, as well as to cease further production until the problem could be righted. I don’t recall how many years it was off the market and they lost BILLIONS to do this but it was important for them to MAINTAIN THEIR INTEGRITY. Do you know of any other company who would voluntarily LOSE that much money just so as to do the right thing? By the way, I can’t tell you the number of folks who’ve told me that if it’d been them, they’d have continued to make and sell the product because the public would never have known…how sad, but very true. Shaklee did not do this because despite the public never knowing, WE WOULD and doing what’s right as opposed to simply making as much money as possible, is what is REALLY important to them!
There are other integrity examples I know of regarding this soon-to-be 50 year old corporation but I think my point is made. Pyramid schemes are only about ripping people off and Shaklee is definitely NOT a pyramid scheme, else they wouldn’t have given a fig if a contaminated product went out to an unsuspecting public.

Mare Moore, proud to be a part of Shaklee

Comment by Mare Moore — 12/16/2005 @ 1:59 pm

Whatever may be the pros and cons of NutriFeron, there is now substantial scientific evidence that vitamin A can neutralize the lethal potential of the bird flu. Scientists at the University of Hong Kong reported recently that the difference between the bird flu virus (H5N1) and milder influenza strains is that it hyperinduces the overproduction of tumor necrosis factor (TNF) in the immune cells, which causes destruction in the lungs where the virus localizes (Lee, D.C. et al. Journal of Virology, 79:10147-54, Aug. 2005). Many studies have shown that vitamin A blocks the production of TNF. For a review of these studies, see the Nov. 20, 2005 article, “Simple antidote to bird flu revealed” at NewAIDSreview.com.

Comment by Robert Houston — 12/17/2005 @ 11:05 am

I got this in my email today. Hope it is not too long…

From Dr. Bruce Miller
Hi,
I understand the position of our friends at Shaklee. We cannot make a claim that a particular product will protect you from or cure any disease, be it yearly flu virus, bird flu virus or any other virus. However, I feel it is appropriate to explain what happens (the mechanism) on a cellular level when a virus invades your body. The immune system’s actions are obviously much more complicated than my explanation. This is the simple outline version—just hitting the main points.
A virus (any virus) cannot duplicate outside of a cell. When a cell is invaded, the virus takes over its duplication machinery and begins to replicate itself. Thus when a virus invades the body it heads for a cell.
When a virus enters a cell the cell releases a chemical messenger called interferon.

1. Interferon does two things.
1) It tells other cells how to defend against this virus.
2) It stimulates cells called macrophages to multiply and get active.

2. Meanwhile the virus is multiplying in the invaded cell.
1) When the cell gets loaded with new viral particles—it explodes releasing more particles into the body to invade other cells.

3. The newly released viral particles are in for a two surprises.
1) The exploding infected cell is surrounded by macrophages which eat up viral particles.
2) Other cells in the area are more resistant to viral invasion.

4. Most of the time a viral infection can be stopped at this stage.

What if a cell is low in interferon when the invasion occurs?

1. The interferon output is low, weak and there is a time lag.
1) There is a delay and a weak signal telling the other cells how to defend against the virus.
2) The macrophages receive a late and feeble signal.

2. During the time lag the virus is replicating rapidly in the infected cell.
1) The infected cell bursts releasing millions of new viral particles.
2) Macrophages are few and weak and many particles escape.
3) The other cells fall to invasion because they do not know how to defend against this virus.
4) This is a chain reaction.
5) You become ill.

NutriFeron increases the production of your own natural interferon.
1. If a cell has a full tank of interferon, it seems to me that it would be better able to battle a viral invasion.
Merry Christmas,
Dr. Bruce B. Miller, DDS, CNS

I thought this looked like interesting info to add to the conversation.

Comment by Ang — 12/18/2005 @ 1:28 pm

Hello, all. Another Shaklee distributor here (full disclosure, yada yada).

Thanks, Ang, for the contribution from Dr. Miller.

Bonnie, I’m totally new to this blog, but will read more, simply because of the civil way that you’ve dealt with dissenters, as well as your pleasant prose.

I will agree that more research should be done on Nutriferon; I also would suggest that more research be done on just about every nutritional supplement in existence. There’s a lot left to know about protein and the B vitamins, not to mention obscure herbal blends. And while I would not expect you to put too much credence in anecdotal evidence, it abounds. I’ll not bore you with it; suffice to say it is proof enough for people like Daniel Taylor.

I have shared your skepticism with regard to MLM, but must say that my bias stemmed from a lack of understanding on my part, as well as my habit of accepting the opinions of others on such topics without any critical analysis. I’m not suggesting that you suffer from the same problem, but your blanket dismissal of an entire business model is probably over-broad.

I don’t know what (likely negative) experiences shaped your opinion of network marketing, but here I find the restaurant analogy useful. I have had some lousy, downright awful dining experiences; I’m sure you have too. Does this mean you no longer eat at restaurants, and encourage those who value your opinion to do likewise? (…he asked, rhetorically)

Thanks for your contribution to the dialogue, as well as the forum to engage in such, and keep up the good work.

–
Ken Johnson
Anchorage, AK

Comment by Ken in AK — 1/9/2006 @ 11:40 am

Hey, all, I didn’t realize people were still commenting on this post… I just caught Ken Johnson’s comment notification in my spam filter, so I assume more landed in there. Please forgive me for not responding to you all.

I think we’re all in agreement that anecdotal evidence is one thing, and pure research is another. My objection was with the way NutriFeron was marketed as “clinically proven” when it really isn’t.

As for MLMs, I think the majority of people involved in MLMs are hard-working, decent souls and I regret any implications that they aren’t.

I still disagree with the MLM business model, however. Nobody has yet explained to me how the “find three who’ll find three” concept isn’t pointy at the top and broad at the bottom and therefore bears more than a passing resemblance to a pyramid, but perhaps we should just agree to disagree on that one.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 1/10/2006 @ 10:30 am

Ok, let me try one more time to explain the difference. If it still doesn’t work then I will agree to disagree.

Yes, an MLM does LOOK like a pyramid. I’ll give you that much. But, the difference is the product movement or lack there of.

Pyramids are illegal because of the lack of product. With a pyramid you pay money, get no product and find people under you who pay money too. You make money off them and it goes up the line. But, there is never any product exchanging hands. So, the people never get anything for their money.

Lets say I am a pyramid scammer. And somehow I have conned you into joining under me. The way this would work is, you give me lets say $3. I keep $1 and pass $2 on. My “upline” gets $1 and their “upline” gets $1. I tell you to find 5 other (or more) people to join under you and do the same thing. See how it could keep going? This is all assuming that you can find idiots to do it. They would not be getting anything for their money other than more money assuming they could find people. So basically, the bottom of the pyramid gets screwed.

The MLM difference is, you don’t have to sell. You will not make $$ if you don’t but you will still have product. You find John’s Widgets you want to buy. Lets say I sell John’t Widgets. You like the brand better than the ones in the store, so you buy from me. Since I sell, I pay $5 for them and you pay $7 since you just want to purchase. We both use them, I just pay less cause I decided I wanted to sell. The MLM gives people the $$ that would normally go straight to large corporations.

That is hte best I can do. It makes sense to my husband who just read it, so it should make sense to everyone else. LOL.

Let me know how I did…

Comment by Ang — 1/10/2006 @ 12:41 pm

Hi Bonnie. I knew I’d come late to the party, and so didn’t really expect that the conversation would continue (although I am pleasantly surprised that it has). As to “agreeing to disagree,” I don’t believe that will be necessary.

I acknowledge freely that a structure with one person as the top, three below him, and three each below them, etc. bears a striking resemblance to a pyramid. It also resembles every hierarchical organization I’ve ever heard of, be it Coca-Cola, the U.S. Army, or the Catholic church.

The words “pyramid” and “scheme” are most often used in conjuction to describe the classic Ponzi-type scam, which likely accounts for “our” (the “operatives’”) rapid and sometimes ascerbic reactions. It is a term of derision, as indeed it should be, but as such it should be reserved for those (people, organizations) who deserve it. Just as Coke isn’t a pyramid scheme, neither is Shaklee.

What makes a pyramid a Ponzi is the “robbing Peter to pay Paul” element. That is, Peter’s monetary investment is paid to Paul as “interest” on Paul’s initial investment. Paul tells John about this great yield, and John invests. The scammer uses John’s investment to pay “interest” to Peter, who tells a friend, etcetera. Of course, eventually this system breaks down, not only because it’s illegal, but because the sum of the “company’s” resources is less than the total return owed investors. As soon as someone seeks to divest his principal investment, he discovers that in fact there is no corpus, and the whole thing comes crashing down.

While I am not (yet) an expert on MLM, I can speak to Shaklee’s model. Without going into exhaustive detail, it is not a pyramid because money is exchanged for products (the quality of which is, in the case of Shaklee, beyond reproach). The money that is paid to distributors is not taken out of the “pockets” of those under them in the organizational structure, but is instead paid by the corporation itself in the form of commissions and bonuses based upon the volume of product sold.

In short, value for value (with apologies and thanks to Ayn Rand and John Galt) defeats the assertion that Shaklee is a pyramid.

You’ll excuse me, I hope, for being gauche enough to talk about something after you’ve indicated that you don’t want to talk about it anymore. I just felt compelled…plus, my operative license is up for review.

–Ken

p.s. Just as I was about to “Make it so,” I got an email notice that Ang has posted to this thread again; I hope the redundancy isn’t too much of a reduncancy.

Comment by Ken in AK — 1/10/2006 @ 12:54 pm

PPS

I think you did well, Ang.

–

Ken

Comment by Ken in AK — 1/10/2006 @ 12:58 pm

…and to guild the lily, or maybe bludgeon the deceased equine, this online movie is an excellent explanation of the MLM business model.

Bonnie, this movie is on our (my wife and my) business site, but my purpose here is informational only; I am certainly not trying to spam you.

explorefreedom.com/kj

…and click the Step 3 link.

Cheers!

–

Ken

Comment by Ken in AK — 1/10/2006 @ 5:20 pm

Hey Bonnie…I didn’t put in my website or usual name here because I sure don’t want these pyramiders to go after me! Hey, you have my e-mail here anyway. (I just posted about the ferrets…so you’ll know who I am!)

Obviously they attacked you with their stupidity and I am sorry. Man, I’d just remove this so I wouldn’t get anymore of their idiotic comments. As if you aren’t entitled to your own opinion on YOUR blog. I also don’t see any of your regular viewers here…these guys just crawled out of cyber-space woodwork or something??? I am laughing at the later posts that they actually ask you to remove the name thing. One dee ten tees. I would because I can’t stand spammers but then again I might think twice because they want me to! HA!

STUPID PYRAMID SCHEMES! I HATE EM!

I’ve also never heard of this vitamin thingy and don’t ever care to try it anyway…especially after your warning but I wouldn’t have in the first place!

Comment by One of your blogger devotees — 1/24/2006 @ 11:52 am

Well hello, “One of [Bonnie's] blogger devotees.” Nice to see that the level of discourse has descended to promoting baseless prejudices and name calling. And did you really just accuse me of “attacking” our hostess with “stupidity”? Reread my posts, then read your own, and perhaps you’ll discover the extent to which I’m rubber, and you’re glue…

Thank you, Bonnie, for entertaining this discussion so far, and for being reasoned and reasonable in your disagreement and skepticism. It seems that indeed this equine has deceased, and as such, I’ll “crawl” back into “cyber-space.”

Cheers.

–

Ken Johnson

Comment by Ken Johnson — 1/24/2006 @ 12:22 pm

Yowza!

Dear Anonymous Person, I do appreciate your concern for me and my blog!

Ken, if the discourse didn’t descend when Shaklee Devotee DJ gave his or her opinion, it can’t possibly descend over this latest poster’s opinion!

I edited DJ’s comment because I felt the sexual terms were inappropriate, but My Anonymous Person never dropped to that level, just saw what some people said and tried to step up to bat for me.

It’s difficult for most visitors to read through all these comments and understand how most Shaklee people were pretty cool about the whole thing, and that only a minority were hotheads.

I appreciate everybody’s comments, and hope nobody feels like they must crawl anywhere!

TO THOSE SUBSCRIBED TO THIS POST: My upgrade to WordPress 2.0 appears to have broken the Subscribe to Comments plugin. I’m working on a replacement.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 1/24/2006 @ 4:23 pm

I love you Bonnie!

Comment by One of your blogger devotees — 1/24/2006 @ 10:04 pm

I know you may not care at this point… But I was talking about you to my Shaklee upline in our biz meeting last night. lol I was telling them about an example of a veiw of our Nutriferon. and the fact that I agree that there needs to be more research. I also called you intellegent (well, not understanding the MLM thing aside)

Just thought you might find this amusing…

Comment by Ang — 1/25/2006 @ 10:13 am

Hi! What a great blog! Great job! thanks again for the info! Wordpress rulez!! Hey, did I tell you about these amazing vitamins? I Feel great as never before!

[URL edited out by mean ole' Bonnie Wren—boy, is she cranky about spam!]

Comment by health food vitamin — 1/25/2006 @ 11:27 pm

Now THAT’S spam!

Comment by Ken Johnson — 1/26/2006 @ 5:12 am

Ha! You’re right, Ken. Man, are they sneaky. You should see how many spammers get caught up in my spam filter. It’s too funny to delete, though, so I just edited out the URL.

Ang: that was nice of you! I would like to see more studies on it, as well as a more accurate label.

Blogger Devotee: Shhh! Hubby reads this blog!

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 1/26/2006 @ 11:16 am

That was more deserving of being called SPAM than the original post. At least the original one read the blog and tried to offer alternatives…

Comment by Ang — 1/27/2006 @ 9:58 am

I found a site http://www.readyforcrisis.com/Fluprevention.html it has some info on the Dr that discovered interferon. He was not paid by Shaklee and chose us after 40 yrs of research. I don’t think this is mainly a Shaklee site as I see other products listed too. Thought it might give you more info that you hadn’t seen…

Oh, and btw. To my knowledge, the FDA does not evaluate any claims made by any supplement companies. They don’t police the formulas only set down guidelines.

Comment by Ang — 1/27/2006 @ 10:21 am

Okay Bonnie, I am beginning to understand better why those of you with a non-commercial online presence are so fed up with solicitations of all flavors. That last (48) is damned insidious. Thanks for persevering.

–
Ken

Comment by Ken Johnson — 1/28/2006 @ 1:00 pm

Yikes, Ken! There were two spammers, #47 and #48, which I marked as spam and my software deleted from the queue. Now YOU are #48… sorry!

Many bloggers have noticed a big upswing in spammers…apparently they all figured out at once how to get past certain barriers.

The tiny few that made it through to this post—well, let’s say they’re nothing in comparison to 1) the spammers that were blocked from accessing this site and 2) the spammers that actually made it through but were caught before they could comment.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 1/28/2006 @ 3:08 pm

I didn’t mean mine to be spam I thought it would be helpful. That site is not mine and I do not know whose it is…

Comment by Ang — 1/29/2006 @ 5:56 pm

Ang, I didn’t delete your comments — I wasn’t talking about you. You and I are practically old friends by now, aren’t we?

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 1/30/2006 @ 5:53 am

Otay, sorry. I got cornfused. LOL

Old friends yay! I guess I should find other blogs to bug you in huh? LOL

Comment by Ang — 1/30/2006 @ 1:36 pm

All, I use shaklee, don’t sell it, don’t use interferon.

I read posts 1 through 38 and then skpped to the bottom.

Just wanted to comment on MLM vs other business models. I am wondering how they are significantly different. Take a large public corporation for example. Each sales person has a quota and gets bonuses if they meet or exceed. the district sales manager has quotas for his team and gets bonuses if he exceeds them. While, they don’t recruit new sales folks into their team, they clearly rely on finding more customers for their products. The company increases the quota each year, so they have to go find more customers to make their money. And all the way at the top is a CEO, on top of a very pointy organization, who is making alot of money based on the work of everyone below him.

So, fundamentally, tell me how MLM is really all that different than a public corporation sales team. Each one is a pyramid. Each one has shady sales and those with integrity. Each one has bonuses for achieving certain levels of sales.

I have hear alot of slamming of MLM, but what other business model is any better?

mtb

Comment by mtb — 2/4/2006 @ 6:41 am

mtb, thanks for your response. I’d say the biggest difference is that whole recruitment thing you just removed from the public corporation sales team scenario.

I’d also guess that the recruited MLM member understands he is starting and growing his own business. Members of public corporation sales teams won’t have this understanding.

The MLMer doesn’t get reimbursed from his employer for any business expenses, either… he swallows them like a small business owner does, whereas members of a public corporation sales team get reimbursed.

This got me thinking about another question:

If I build up a prosperous vitamin company—or a pet supplies company or whatever—complete with an active sales team, I can sell the business to anybody I want for the true market value. Can the owner of a prosperous Shaklee business do the same?

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 2/5/2006 @ 7:39 am

Hi Bonnie,

I am new to Blogging. This page came up for me when I did a search on the Internet.

This is all very interesting, as I have yet to get a blog for myself, but I have a question about the “public post setting” and “my guest” comments (in post #17).

I understand web/spambots which may post things electronically (and should be illegal), but if you have fields for comment at the bottom that are open to anyone to use, doesn’t that make it a public post? Otherwise, wouldn’t there need to be a password required for people to be able to post?

If you have any thoughts on this, I’d really appreciate it.

———-
Anyway, if I may add to the discussions, there are several things that are missing from the above postings.

#1) The NutriFeron clinical studies were done by Yamanouchi Pharmaceutical, who helped Dr. Kojima develop the product, not Shaklee. They were done before Shaklee was given the marketing rights to this product.

And there are definitely more clinicals. These four are only the ones that have been published. (It can take years to go through the publishing process.)

I even know that the Kenya government has talked to Roger about doing one with NutriFeron and the Basics and the huge AIDS epidemic over there (a incredible problem and huge catastrophe for humanity).

#2) There is much more to the MLM/Shaklee issue than what has been talked about so far.

I, too, was very skeptical and uneasy about MLM. And with good reason. There are so many people out there taking advantage of other people, that I just didn’t want to be involved in something like that. (This applies to the profession of sales as a whole.)

In fact, I’ve been a Shaklee product user for 23 years. I never experienced pressure from my upline to sell, but I also never truly understood MLM (or marketing in general), until recently.

And now I can’t tell you how much I could kick myself for not understanding this decades ago!

Anyway, here are some things I’ve learned, upon doing a more thorough analysis:

Yes, pyramids typically don’t have products that are sold and that is why they are illegal.

But many MLM’s tack on a product to a large sign up fee to make it sound legitimate.

In fact, many people who make the “big money” in MLM’s are actually just making money from recruiting bonuses. And their income collapses if/when their organizations stop recruiting.

It may come as a surprise…but Shaklee has never had any recruiting bonuses tied to joining, and no one has ever gotten a dime from signing someone up. 100% of commissions are made from product sales.

It only costs $19.95 to join as a member and the sponsor doesn’t get a dime. (Costco charges $45 per year - my Citibank Credit Card costs me $75 per year - so Shaklee seems like a real steal!) And right now, our membership is free with a minimum order as part of our 50th Anniversary special.

Membership by the way, doesn’t make you a distributor automatically. You still have to be appointed as a distributor by your upline. (Who would buy shoes if the shoe salesman constantly pressured you about selling shoes?)

Even now, with our brand new “Fast Start To Wellness Distributor Program” (that includes some awesome products and gives people an additional bonus), it is but one out of three options for joining, each one offering their own added benefits.

Also, there are many different forms of MLM.

Shaklee is what’s known as a hybrid. It is called a “stair-step breakaway” plan.

It is NOT based on sponsoring levels. That is what confuses people when they hear any type of “get three who get three” conversation.

Each business leader must have a whole bunch of “customers” (usually at least 40-50+) - people who are NOT building a business. Some people out of those customers may build a business, but that still leaves a whole bunch in their personal business groups.

There are many people in Shaklee who make a good income just from their base of customers, without recruiting any business builders.

So in order to understand it, it is critical to know that each downline business builder has a group of customers of their own.

In addition, business builders 2nd, 3rd or 4th level can make more money than their uplines if they have more customers and/or have more people that they’ve trained and recruited.

(Many people are shocked to learn this.)

There are two reasons for this:

a) Bonuses are limited to 4 generations, meaning that if I have a 3rd level business builder who has 3rd and 4th levels, I don’t get paid on them.

b) If I haven’t trained a certain number of business builders myself, I don’t even get paid on my own 3rd or 4th levels, or not paid as much. This prevents what’s known as unjust enrichment.

Thus your income is dependent on your own efforts as well, not just on the efforts of others.

The glorious difference between the stair-step breakaway MLM plan and many other MLM plans is that it is stable and doesn’t depend on recruiting to produce continuous income.

It is also wildly successful (as evidenced by the 500 MILLION products Shaklee has sold).

The glorious difference between MLM and the corporate sales structure is that sales rep can promote themselves to sales manager and not have to wait until someone else dies or moves on.

It is based on the Golden Rule, where everyone has exactly the same opportunity.

In the corporate world, an employee can be hired, but cannot hire other employees, and therefore is trapped by the limits of his job. There is no fairness and there is no leverage (and little or no incentive to help others succeed or be promoted themselves).

There are many more benefits and distinctions as well, but those are the major ones that have been touched upon, but not made fully clear above.

In my view, the most important thing about all of this is that if customers and distributors are not trained properly, (no matter what compensation system is used) they may make mistakes in the way they communicate the benefits of the products or the business they represent.

They may not conform to Shaklee’s guidelines regarding product claims, or they may not talk to people about their needs and desires for which having their own business may be a perfect solution.

This causes the typical “sales” pressure scenario or the lack of credibility that we all hate so much!

Stewart

P.S. Sorry this is so long, but I thought a complete comment would be more helpful than a cursory one. Hopefully all who read it will be more informed, and find it useful.

To all my Shaklee distributor brothers & sisters:
There is never a need for emotionally defending a position. There is always a good reason that people feel the way they do. When you can relate to people and their reasons, and understand the issues involved, you will be compassionate, respectful and empowered.

Let’s go out and continue to do good in the world!

Comment by Stewart Stevens — 2/23/2006 @ 10:30 pm

[...] One of the few rants I did post I called “Will NutriFeron save you from the bird flu?” and it probably gets more hits than any other post I’ve made so far. [...]

Pingback by Ballpoint Wren » Free speech and blog comments — 2/24/2006 @ 11:51 am

Dear Stewart, thanks very much for your thoughtful and informative post. As you may have noticed, I responded to your question about the guest comments in public post settings in a separate post.

Regarding MLMs: I did not know about the “unjust enrichment” policy at Shaklee. but I’m glad to see it as it seems more fair than what I previously understood it to be.

Do you know if Shaklee representatives are allowed to sell their thriving Shaklee businesses as owners of small businesses or franchises may do? This would be an important point to understand if I were trying to decide whether or not to start a Shaklee business.

If I purchased and built up a fast food franchise, I could sell it for its true market value and the new owner would (if he continued my stellar business practices) continue to earn just as much money as I did, not counting any downturns in the burger market.

But can Shaklee distributors sell their businesses if they want?

Regarding NutriFeron: I look forward to any new studies which may prove it can boost interferon levels as Shaklee claims. I promise to write about them.

My only complaint about the four studies given as examples of proof on the Shaklee label was that only one seemed to address NutriFeron’s effect on a viral illness, and that study was not conclusive.

Thanks again for your civil post.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 2/24/2006 @ 11:59 am

Hi Bonnie,

Thanks for your response.

To answer your question, yes, Shaklee businesses can be bought and sold. I know a number of people who have done so (at quite a premium, I might add).

You can also leave your business to your kids (or in your will). There are quite a number of second and now third generation Shaklee kids/businesses, which to me is quite impressive.

I was shocked to learn that a number of other MLM’s do not have this as part of their program. The businesses are taken back by the company if anyone retires, dies, etc. VERY POOR ETHICS if you ask me!

(I LOVE your comment about following your stellar business practices!!! That is true of every business, and not everyone knows how to run or build a business that can run without them! That’s why I agree with that old adage: “The Money Is In The System.”

Some older Shaklee businesses are still run via inventory out of their garage - if you can believe it.

The newer and smarter businesses are what we call MDO - where the “Members Direct Order” from Shaklee via phone or the web, and we simply get an email notification of their order. That’s how this business is truly a passive income business, even without recruiting other distributors - FYI.)

Regarding your other comment on NutriFeron, I did some research (looking up Shaklee’s info, direct from the horse’s mouth, as it were), and think I found the source of your question.

There are actually FIVE clinicals, four of which were published in the last year alone by independent scientific medical journals. The other one is the one that shows the increase in natural Interferon production. The four other ones were designed to show other things.

If you’d like to listen to the discussions by the Shaklee scientists themselves, I have posted two recording on my personal website: Just go to http://www.immunitybreakthrough.com and click on “More Info.” These discussions clarify the claims, the breakthrough, the development and the science behind it, as well as other factors you can do to boost/support your immune system.

I hope it’s okay to pass along this information. (After you check it out, you can delete the website info from this message if you wish, so you & others don’t think it is spam or advertising.)

Stewart

P.S. I “borrowed” some of the testimonies others have posted so more people can benefit from the results others have gotten. I hope that is okay.

Comment by Stewart Stevens — 2/26/2006 @ 4:17 pm

HI
I am a holistic Nutritionist working on my doctoral dissertation. I was so encouraged by the results my present clients and my own family had with this product that I decided to delve into this with much greater intensity. Upon doing so, I realized that this is a product that might be used in the control of MS or possibly in the prevention of it. Now, MS is multi faceted, but this holds a powerful potential in the current approach to MS. As a testimonial, my family and I did not even have a cold this year, despite all the people around us hacking away, some with quite severe illnesses. I have seen some of my clients with mild health issues benefit in the same manner as we did and I have other clients with severe health issues, that chose to try this product and who also could not believe the improvement they experienced.
In support of the research on this product…. This is good solid research, and just because the product uses simple things like botanicals, does not negate the powerful impact it may have on this country and our health.Now maybe it will be effective in the possible prevention of bird flu and maybe it will not.The person you quoted was simply saying that she prefers to act preventively rather than after the fact. Rather than approaching illness and disease AFTER the fact, this product is used as a preventive. Now, the testimonials pouring in are very powerful regarding HIV, Hepatitis( first hand experience with my clients on this one) and other health issues. Possibly you could spend more time doing more research on the current uses of interferon and its limitations and applications rather than bashing a natural product?! There is also substantive information on the botanicals in this product as well. You may find the information very supportive of the Shaklee claims.
In regard to multi level marketing etc, I find you very ignorant. I suggest you do some more research on that, and possibly call up Harvard, Yale etc to ask them why they allow professors to teach this scandalous way of doing business adn why they have not been hauled to jail for illegal doings in the business world! No really, My only fault with you is that you did not really do your homework.I would have rather you were more objective, got the facts straight and maybe talked with people in the field with more knowledge than yourself. Possibly you had a very bad experience with multi level marketing? Say, Amway? We all have at one time or another. However, this article was very subjective and not thorough enough.

Comment by Karen Burrows — 4/18/2006 @ 12:07 pm

Hi

I am sorry to interrupt you , but nobody wants help me.I was calling to Canada difficult to get some information.
I have COLON CANCER.I strarted took NUTRIFERON-Shaklee produkt that stimulate immune system.
After 4 days of taking this caps ( 2 every day)I start to heve enormous pain.
sOME peole says it can be good because my immune system start to fight with cancer, but pain start to be terrible so I stopped taking Nutriferon, now my pain is a little smaller but does not return to level before takieng Nutriferon.
Maybe Nutriferon help me, can you tell me maybe I should takie Nutriferon with some vitamin.Is this pain normal?
I hope there is no possiblity that Nutriferon stimulate my cancer not immune system?
Can you tell me should I stop taking …??
Please answer me, it is the matter of my life
Thank you
Kate

Comment by Kate — 5/6/2006 @ 7:51 am

Dear Kate, I am so sorry about your cancer and your pain. Please let your doctor know you are experiencing pain and ask him/her what you should do.

I don’t know the answers about Nutriferon, but I just wrote to five Shaklee distributors who commented here, asking them if they might help you find more information about Nutriferon so you and your doctor can decide what to do.

I’m hoping one or more will respond to you either by e-mail or in this thread. I will watch this post… please let me know if you get no answer and I will contact Shaklee on Monday morning for you.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 5/6/2006 @ 8:23 am

Dearest people in interest of the good of humanity,

It seems that you are in a war with Shaklee Distributors here. Disregarding the fact that I am also a Shaklee upcoming master coordinator (in Malaysia), I will truthfully state my points in a most unbiased manner, although I don’t think it will be truly possible.

Thank you Bonnie, for you have made a good point in saying that the peer-reviews are “statistically insignificant”. I have to admit that to most people, the studies are not convincing enough to prove the efficiency of Nutriferon. However, do realise it is not easy for peer-reviews to be accepted in prestigious journals, and that millions have been spent to research the combination of plants used in Shaklee’s Nutriferon. The price is not because of advertising or because Shaklee is an MLM company. You should know that Shaklee Corporation consistently tests its products to prove their efficiency, and Nurtiferon is one of those products. Shaklee has actually spent quite a lot in further testing the combination of “seeds and plants” that Dr Kojima has researched himself. A lot have been invested into research and to prove that it is absorbed into the body as well as increasing interferon levels in the blood. For such a breakthrough, a high price is always expected. Apart from that, the stock of Nutriferon in the USA was not enough in order to be exported into Malaysia till now, due to the popularity (hence, the price) of the product. This is also another example of “high demand, low supply”. It is the same with everything else in the world, be it CPUs or any technological advances. Therefore, I am confident that the price of Nutriferon will reduce progressively.

Apart from that, do know that Shaklee is one of the ONLY companies (the ONLY company I know of so far) to do frequent clinical testing to prove the efficiency of its products. A higher price is generally expected.

I have studied many so-called “multi-level marketing” companies before I joined Shaklee faithfully. I know and I can bet my life that Shaklee, as is with Amway and Elken, is not a Pyramid Scheme. Companies such as Quest International and Digital Crown Holdings Limited (DCHL) are amongst the many pyramid schemes around. In general, pyramid schemes are those that promote recruiting or “head-hunting”, and not selling. These companies would usually impose a high startup fee, usually amounting from hundreds to thousands of dollars, and distributors can simply earn a percentage from recruiting prospects. There is no actual “sales” and these activities are deemed unethical. In Shaklee and Amway, distributors DO NOT earn anything from recruiting, but only through their sales. The joining fee is at a minimal and includes the processing fee as well as the starter kit. Shaklee is a legitimate network marketing company, and is reviewed and studied by many lawyers worldwide. Accusing Shaklee or even Amway as a pyramid scheme is inappropriate and unacceptable. I do not know whether you’re one of those conspiracy theorists around, or maybe you’re from an MLM company which is in competition with Shaklee. If you’re not a certified lawyer who knows the law more than we do, I suggest that you stop accusing Shaklee of being a pyramid scheme, before you invite more trouble.

Regarding the Shaklee Distributor who made the claim “effective against bird-flu”, I would like to say that this particular distributor is ultimately paying the price for being over-zealous in his/her pursuit to be successful in Shaklee. We have never (and should NEVER) claimed nor mentioned in any way that Nurtiferon is effective to protect us from bird-flu. We can only claim that it MAY cure certain cancers and illnesses, because although physically the same, human bodies are different from one to another, in that some people might benefit greatly, while some would not benefit much from Nutriferon or any other food supplements.

In terms of effectiveness, I have tried many other brands of food supplements in order to control my atopic eczema. All doctors I know of recommend Evening Primrose Oil (gamma-linolenic acid) and Vitamin C for this condition, and my mother once spent thousands upon thousands investing in food supplements (many brands) for me. Nothing happened. When I joined Shaklee, I was not really convinced of the effectiveness of GLA-complex from Shaklee, which is claimed to be “three times as effective as Evening Primrose Oil” and I was hesitant to use. Due to the constant recommendation from my uncle K. Sow, I finally gave it a try, and I swear to God there is nothing like Shaklee. After 8 years, I can finally see my own fingerprints. Thanks to constant clinical testing, the products made a tremendous difference in my life. I have been suffering from Atopic Eczema since 8 years ago, and I have benefited unexpectedly from Shaklee products. It is simply a case of doubt-turned-into-faith. I have also seen with my own eyes the benefit of our products, even in cancer survivors in Malaysia. I am now “married” to Shaklee, and I will do my best to protect the name and dignity of the company.

I have faith in Shaklee products, but it is up to the people to evaluate the products themselves.

Thank You Shaklee, for making a difference in my life!

There are many other things that I would like to answer, but I choose to leave it to those who are more knowledgeable. I apologise for any mistakes in language, as well as any criticism. I am only 20 years old, and although I may not be as educated or knowledgeable as some people here, I am willing to stretch myself further to improve myself. Criticisms to my opinions are welcome. Thank You.

Comment by Julian Gan — 6/12/2006 @ 12:02 pm

I want to make a more simple opinion here. There are some who are interested in preventative measures, and there are of course some who do not. For those who want to protect themselves from illnesses, and who are constantly consuming food supplements, I congratulate them for being health-concious. Otherwise, just don’t buy or consume them.
Let the people decide for themselves whether they want to live healthier lives. That will definitely save us a lot of headaches. As far as I’m concerned, Bonnie’s accusations that Shaklee is a pyramid scheme in particular, are also “statistically insignificant”.

To Kate, what you are experiencing is called “healing crisis”. The body will relive symptoms, perhaps worse. Please contact a local distributor regarding this effect. You should not only be taking Nutriferon, but also others that might help with the pain. You should also become a full-time vegan, and you have to re-adjust your lifestyle. It works for most cancer patients in Malaysia. I must also stress that Shaklee products MAY help, but cannot cure cancer. You still need to undergo chemo. For your nutritional needs, Shaklee can assist you.

Comment by Julian Gan — 6/12/2006 @ 12:29 pm

Dear Kate,
One of the most reliable articles regarding Interferon that you can share with your doctor can be obtained in this webpage:

pathmicro.med.sc.edu/mhunt/interferon.htm

Immediately contact the nearest Shaklee Distributor for more help.

Comment by Julian Gan — 6/12/2006 @ 12:35 pm

By the way, regarding the comment made by the distributor (in the first post), she/he may have implied bird-flu, but have never stated it directly. There are some over-zealous distributors who would make certain unrealistic claims, but that does not mean that the entire community of Shaklee Distributors does the same. The distributor’s comment may not have been exaggerating at all, just the way we perceive it. I apologise if I wrongly understood the particular distributor’s comment. I know that Nutriferon may be the only alternative we have for now. Nutriferon doesn’t put emphasis on bird-flu, but may help in prevention.
Sorry for the multiple posts by the way. I have a weakness of typing too much…
Take care people…

Comment by Julian Gan — 6/12/2006 @ 12:53 pm

Dear Julian, thank you for your thoughtful contributions to this post.

Very intersting about the studies Shaklee has financed! In the absence of more independent research, however, customers will probably rely more on personal anecdotes such as yours when deciding whether or not to try NutriFeron.

I’m glad NutriFeron helped with the excema—I will never discount people’s personal experience with a product. As you said, I only discounted the motives of the original distributor who spammed me, as well as the studies referred to on the NutriFeron label.

Regarding Kate: I know at least two of the Shaklee distributors I contacted made attempts to reach Kate, although I don’t know yet what the outcome was.

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 6/13/2006 @ 9:38 am

Dearest Bonnie,
I just came back from the Nutriferon Training at Malaysia, and I met a new distributor today. When I introduce myself to him, he said “oh, YOU’RE Julian Gan? I saw your post in a blog related to Nutriferon” and I was like, “REALLY?” I never really posted anything recently since I was quite busy as I only started building my Shaklee business. I believe you all have just heard from my best friend who is also my downline. Yep, he knows about my skin condition, and many others do. I’m not surprised that many people know about my history since I share my experience at every opportunity possible. My best friend and I once indulge in humiliating each other and our friends in every blog we can find, because most blogs have a single weakness, which is you can act or pretend to be someone else. I apologise that “I” have caused quite a bit of havoc here. Gosh, he even knows my writing style!
However, what he just said made me quite proud of him because he’s my downline. It is around 90% accurate, and I would like to add a bit to “my” statements.

Firstly, regarding the MOTIVE of this product called Nutriferon (it is sold in sachets here, which you can mix into any beverage, and it tastes like orange), all it can do is to improve the interferon response in your body. We can safely state that once the interferon response is at it’s optimum level, the macrophages and immune cells will eliminate viruses and bacteria more effectively. HOWEVER, if that person’s diet is still poor and he/she does not supplement his/her diet, the body’s immune cells and macrophages will be weaker and in lower quantities due to lack of proper nutrition. THEREFORE, even if you take 10 sachets of Nutriferon everyday, your immune system will still be generally weak, regardless of your interferon response. I would still recommend people to take A, C, E, garlic complex, zinc, and soy protein. Nutriferon is basically a food-supplement supplement.

Secondly, we in the nutritional supplement business are always walking on a fine line, ESPECIALLY those of us in Shaklee. Our claim is that it MAY help to cure hepatitis C, CERTAIN types of cancer and various immune related illnesses. It MAY prevent avian flu and SARS. (refer to the statement “These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.”) This is because we are marketing Nutriferon as nutrition, not a drug. Despite various evidences that prove the efficacy of Nutriferon, we do NOT claim that it will cure anything because if we do, we will have to market it as a drug which people would use to cure illnesses. That is not our mission. Our mission is to prevent, not to cure. We want people to use it on a daily basis in order to prevent illnesses, not to cure. However, most people would misinterpret it as a claim that nutriferon can cure cancer and it can definitely prevent cancer and avian flu. In my opinion, that distributor did not make any exaggerating claims about Nutriferon, but it is easy for most people to misinterpret that claim. That is why I say that we are walking on a fine line between being a nutrition company and a pharmaceutical company. We in Shaklee believe that if we fine-tune our body’s immune system, our body will fight the disease by itself. Therefore, Nutriferon is meant to HELP the body to fight cancer, prevent avian flu, etc. It still depends on that person’s body.

Thirdly, we sometimes “use” people’s fears so that they will better take care of their health, but we never abuse that fear for the sake of increasing sales volume. The fear of getting infected with deadly diseases is very real and not fictitious. There is good reason to be afraid. Even if you don’t care about your life anymore, you wouldn’t want to infect other people,particularly your loved ones, would you?

I’m sorry that “I” made quite a big fuss in this blog. I’ll make sure he’ll pay. Does anyone knows any famous blogs related to extremist islamic jihad groups? I’d like to lure them to Malaysia with the sole purpose of castrating him… Remember, when someone praises himself or talks mostly about himself, it most probably isn’t really him, but someone else.

With apologies,
THE TRUE Julian Gan.
To Ray,
I know you’re looking at this…

Comment by THE REAL Julian Gan — 7/17/2006 @ 10:14 am

What! You mean there is an imposter on this thread?

I guess I should be peeved, but since you started your comment with “Dearest Bonnie”, all is well.

(Naughty Ray!)

Comment by Bonnie Wren — 7/19/2006 @ 12:01 pm

I’m glad to see this open dialog about Nutriferon. I’ve had, and still do have, a gut twist whenever I think of companies like Shaklee or Amway. Most of the products they sell are available over the counter at considerably less cost. The main difference I see is that the distribution system is more micro and the research/testing seems a little more available and thorough. I’d like to tell you about my little experiment.
I was diagnosed in March of this year with a rare disease of the bone marrow called Myelofibrosis. The treatment options are limited and my initial research indicated that mean survival is about five years. Well that just won’t do!!! I’m 41 and just adopted a beautiful baby boy. He’s our world and I couldn’t be any more proud.
What I found out is that the disease is not treatable with conventional treatment (standard chemo and there’s nothing to cut out). My choices are treat it and try to supress it or get a stem cell transplant (no, not the kind Bush just vetoed). Interferon is one of the tools in the arsenal.
My hematologist/oncologist has been reluctant to start me on any medications since my blood work has been relatively good. The only problem is that I feel like I’m carrying around a full term baby… and I’m a dude. My spleen is two and a half times what it should be. That’s a problem.
I’ve been trying Nutriferon for a little while now. My initial CT scan showed 27cm, and now after taking this stuff for a little while it’s at 26.2 (that could be because the second measurement was done by ultrasound). I started out at twice the dose and felt like total crap. One of the side effects of interferon is that you have flu like symptoms (and since my bone marrow is turning into scar tissue, I wrote it off to that). I stayed off for about a month, and now I’m back on again and feeling like crap again. Yay!!!???
I’m open to talk more about my little experiment if you would like. Shoot me a note and I’ll post again to update you guys. It definitely seems to be doing something.
Alan Caruthers
saalanc@hotmail.com
By the way, good luck in finding any research about whether Nutriferon actually raises blood serum levels of Interferon. Even their high level muckety mucks don’t seem to know.

Comment by Alan Caruthers — 7/19/2006 @ 10:48 pm

Hi there Alan.
After taking nutriferon for a few days, I had the same flu-like symptoms for about a few hours, but after then, everything is fine and I can see significant improvements in my eczema. My theory is that the “side effects” should be called healing crisis, the process of the body fighting a certain disease or the expelling of toxins in the body. Please refer to a professional Shaklee Distributor in your area, he/she should know more about this.
Regarding your disease, we have NEVER claimed that Nutriferon can actually cure any disease, because otherwise we would have to market it as a drug. Secondly, our products are meant to help the body to “create” its own “cure” to fight the disease. If someone has cancer or other immune-related illnesses, taking Nutriferon itself just won’t cut it. Interferon acts as a kind of signalling device that announces to our immune cells (soldiers) to fight off certain bacterial infections. But if your immune system (soldiers, bases, weaponry) is weak, signalling won’t do any good. You should take A, C, E, Garlic, Zinc and protein. Please consult your physician before consuming these products, and contact a Shaklee Sales Leader.

Best of Luck,
Julian.

Comment by Julian Gan — 7/25/2006 @ 10:51 pm

Julian,
Thank you for your comments on this product, but I think that the assumption that the pain I’m feeling is a “healing crisis” is a bit misplaced. I’ve been through those before and trust me, it doesn’t compare to this. With this disease, my marrow is slowly being replaced by a fibrous tissue that is pushing on my bones. When I take a product like this, or have a flu, my core temperature rises and the tissue expands, pushing more on the bones from the inside. My hope with taking the nutriferon (other than the fact that my doctor doesn’t want to start me on interferon alfa until blood is squirting out my eyes… sorry, I got a bit of hostility towards him right now) is th